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	<title>Comments on: Diesels: Still Not Very Green</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/</link>
	<description>Blogging the science and policy of global warming</description>
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		<title>By: Lisa Moore</title>
		<link>http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/comment-page-1/#comment-878</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Moore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/#comment-878</guid>
		<description>Hi fred1,

We don’t have records for water vapor that match the length or resolution of records for temperature and CO2. The physical principles involved in the water vapor feedback haven’t changed, though, so water vapor would have increased in response to warming in the past very much as it does today.  

However, ice core records can provide some insight over longer time periods. That’s because ice layers contain dust, which scientists use as an indirect proxy for dry conditions. In general, cold glacial periods have been dustier than warm interglacial periods, but there’s no globally coherent trend in the timing between temperature and dustiness – certainly nothing as clear as the lag between temperature and CO2 during past glacial-interglacial cycles.

One final thought - remember that the lag between temperature and CO2 in the past does not mean that CO2 has nothing to do with global warming today. As Bill described in his post about &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/06/29/human_cause-3/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;past climate change&lt;/a&gt;, it’s vitally important to recognize the difference between the initial trigger of the warming and the phenomena that can enhance warming. The trigger for today’s rapid global warming is clear – greenhouse gases emitted by human activities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi fred1,</p>
<p>We don’t have records for water vapor that match the length or resolution of records for temperature and CO2. The physical principles involved in the water vapor feedback haven’t changed, though, so water vapor would have increased in response to warming in the past very much as it does today.  </p>
<p>However, ice core records can provide some insight over longer time periods. That’s because ice layers contain dust, which scientists use as an indirect proxy for dry conditions. In general, cold glacial periods have been dustier than warm interglacial periods, but there’s no globally coherent trend in the timing between temperature and dustiness – certainly nothing as clear as the lag between temperature and CO2 during past glacial-interglacial cycles.</p>
<p>One final thought &#8211; remember that the lag between temperature and CO2 in the past does not mean that CO2 has nothing to do with global warming today. As Bill described in his post about <a href="http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/06/29/human_cause-3/" rel="nofollow">past climate change</a>, it’s vitally important to recognize the difference between the initial trigger of the warming and the phenomena that can enhance warming. The trigger for today’s rapid global warming is clear – greenhouse gases emitted by human activities.</p>
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		<title>By: fred1</title>
		<link>http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/comment-page-1/#comment-872</link>
		<dc:creator>fred1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 01:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/#comment-872</guid>
		<description>i am merely asking if there are historical ice core records that would indicate that water vapor increases in the atmosphere tend to lag or lead warming periods, similar to how CO2 lags warming periods.   this post does not provide any scientific data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i am merely asking if there are historical ice core records that would indicate that water vapor increases in the atmosphere tend to lag or lead warming periods, similar to how CO2 lags warming periods.   this post does not provide any scientific data.</p>
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		<title>By: Sheryl Canter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/comment-page-1/#comment-866</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheryl Canter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/#comment-866</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a whole post on the water vapor fallacy:

http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/02/28/water_vapor_fallacy/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#039;s a whole post on the water vapor fallacy:</p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/02/28/water_vapor_fallacy/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/02/28/water_vapor_fallacy/</a></p>
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		<title>By: fred1</title>
		<link>http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/comment-page-1/#comment-864</link>
		<dc:creator>fred1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 01:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/#comment-864</guid>
		<description>also i would be interested in knowing if anyone has done a study on the correlation of water vapor levels and global temps...have water vapor levels varied in the past and did global temps lag / lead?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also i would be interested in knowing if anyone has done a study on the correlation of water vapor levels and global temps&#8230;have water vapor levels varied in the past and did global temps lag / lead?</p>
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		<title>By: Sheryl Canter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/comment-page-1/#comment-857</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheryl Canter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 18:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/#comment-857</guid>
		<description>skeptic1 - your second point is silly, but the first part of your comment is interesting. Can you post a link?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>skeptic1 &#8211; your second point is silly, but the first part of your comment is interesting. Can you post a link?</p>
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		<title>By: skeptic1</title>
		<link>http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/comment-page-1/#comment-855</link>
		<dc:creator>skeptic1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 04:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/#comment-855</guid>
		<description>Honda has a new diesel coming out that burns very cleanly and in fact actually cleans the air.  It is not a hybrid either.

And CO2 has little effect on global warming anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honda has a new diesel coming out that burns very cleanly and in fact actually cleans the air.  It is not a hybrid either.</p>
<p>And CO2 has little effect on global warming anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Sheryl Canter</title>
		<link>http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/comment-page-1/#comment-821</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheryl Canter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/#comment-821</guid>
		<description>I talked to John about this, and he sent me a link to a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060710180310.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Science Daily&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; article about a University of Minnesota study. It says, &quot;The first comprehensive analysis of the full life cycles of soybean biodiesel and corn grain ethanol shows that biodiesel has much less of an impact on the environment and a much higher net energy benefit than corn ethanol, but that neither can do much to meet U.S. energy demand.&quot; So we can be guardedly positive about biodiesel.

As for the timeline on NOx fixes for diesels (of any flavor), as we said in our post: not fast enough. We can&#039;t put a timeline on automakers&#039; efforts, but do believe that it would speed up if a carbon cap is put in place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I talked to John about this, and he sent me a link to a <a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060710180310.htm" rel="nofollow"><i>Science Daily</i></a> article about a University of Minnesota study. It says, &#034;The first comprehensive analysis of the full life cycles of soybean biodiesel and corn grain ethanol shows that biodiesel has much less of an impact on the environment and a much higher net energy benefit than corn ethanol, but that neither can do much to meet U.S. energy demand.&#034; So we can be guardedly positive about biodiesel.</p>
<p>As for the timeline on NOx fixes for diesels (of any flavor), as we said in our post: not fast enough. We can&#039;t put a timeline on automakers&#039; efforts, but do believe that it would speed up if a carbon cap is put in place.</p>
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		<title>By: tmeyer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/comment-page-1/#comment-817</link>
		<dc:creator>tmeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 15:39:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2008/02/20/diesels-still-not-very-green/#comment-817</guid>
		<description>Biodiesel has the advantage of being home-grown, renewable, associated with a 75% reduction in net CO2 production compared to petroleum diesel, as well as lower particulate matter and hydrocarbon emissions. However,  I have heard that the Nox issues of diesel and biodiesel make them worse from an environmental standpoint than using regular gas.  Do you know of any data showing green house gas impact of biodiesel vs. regular gas? What is the timeline for technological fixes to the Nox output of vehicles?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Biodiesel has the advantage of being home-grown, renewable, associated with a 75% reduction in net CO2 production compared to petroleum diesel, as well as lower particulate matter and hydrocarbon emissions. However,  I have heard that the Nox issues of diesel and biodiesel make them worse from an environmental standpoint than using regular gas.  Do you know of any data showing green house gas impact of biodiesel vs. regular gas? What is the timeline for technological fixes to the Nox output of vehicles?</p>
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