Comments on: Climate News: Solar Excuses, Stormy Reefs and Drying Ponds http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/07/06/news_6-jul-07/ Blogging the science and policy of global warming Mon, 16 Nov 2009 07:13:20 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5.2 hourly 1 By: Climate 411 » Global Warming Science 2007: Ten Top Stories - Blogs & Podcasts - Environmental Defense http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/07/06/news_6-jul-07/comment-page-1/#comment-713 Climate 411 » Global Warming Science 2007: Ten Top Stories - Blogs & Podcasts - Environmental Defense Thu, 24 Jan 2008 01:22:59 +0000 http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/07/06/news_6-jul-07/#comment-713 [...] The Sun is (really, really) not responsible for global warming. This paper wasn’t breaking news, just an extremely thorough review of the science showing why the sun can’t be blamed for global warming. The folks over at RealClimate said it best: "That’s a coffin with so many nails in it already that the hard part is finding a place to hammer in a new one." [...] [...] The Sun is (really, really) not responsible for global warming. This paper wasn't breaking news, just an extremely thorough review of the science showing why the sun can't be blamed for global warming. The folks over at RealClimate said it best: "That's a coffin with so many nails in it already that the hard part is finding a place to hammer in a new one." [...]

]]> By: Bill Mc http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/07/06/news_6-jul-07/comment-page-1/#comment-333 Bill Mc Wed, 26 Dec 2007 00:07:56 +0000 http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/07/06/news_6-jul-07/#comment-333 No, solar folks have no place to hide on the subject of global warming. Ever notice the difference between summer and winter? Did you know that the earth's present tilt on its rotational axis relative to our orbital plane is 23.5 degrees? Did you know that the earth is roughly 8,000 miles in diameter? So, if the difference between what some call summer and some call winter is 47 degrees and a few thousand miles of commensurate diameter shift, what do you think might happen if instead of a few thousand miles of diameter shift distance from the sun we make that a few million miles instead? Like when the eccentricity of our orbit (2% of 93 million miles, or 1.7M miles) shifts as it does very periodically. That would be an ice age. Like the past 16 such climate change events that happened in the closest thing geology has to a clock every 100,000 years for the Pleistocene Epoch (past 1.6 million years). If you are worried about the 40-60cm (~2-feet) the IPCC says sea level will rise in the not too distant future, or the order of magnitude more Al Gore interprets the data to say, then lets use Gores 20 feet. Each of those 16 most recent climate change events averaged 400 feet in sea level change, 300 feet below present to 100 feet above. So, which of the 5 20-feet increments we are currently shy of those 16 peaks will Al Gore's be? How will you tell? As a geologist my research into this phenomena is extensive, and the most recent Arctic sedimentologist's interpretation is that the trigger event for the long slow 100k year slide into an ice age appears to be the complete melting away of the Arctic ice sheet, which, BTW is progged to be done by 2070. Now, the Vostok data show an interesting signature, covering 4 of those 16 Pleistocene events in its 1/4 of that time period (420k years). Those long, bumpy 100k year long slides into a deep freeze followed by an abrupt termination. Each time. Now what form of life would suddenly appear in numbers large enough to precipitate a 400 foot rise in sea level due to GHGs at the deepest depths of a 100k year long ice age? it has to be some form of life because we have no volcanoes that are that regular. And we have no ash associated with these terminations which are the most punctual (by a huge margin) thing known in the geologic record. If you are worried about CO2 moving from 0.04 to 0.08% of the atmosphere, you are simply on the wrong side of the decimal point in terms of anthropogenic effects. Try 50% of the worlds forests, 50% of the world's grasslands gone in the last century, how about 13 of the 16 largest cities perched on estuaries, earth's incubators of life. Ever notice how the ground warms up with sunlight? Ya think if you knock off all that forest and grassland and whip up some of that surface as dust the same thing won't happen in the atmosphere? What about the fact that if everyone on the planet got to live in American Plush the UN says we would need seven more planets? Its OK, if you want to focus on what is basically an innoccuous colorless odorless gas, I have no objection. The real problems are population, resources and energy. But the Nine Times Rule states with statistical certainty that the human being is nine times more susceptible to rumor than it is to fact. Simple proof? Which is the world's correct religion. If you want to deal with this problem, start with some kind of population control. If the world were to take California's approach (I am a Californian) and pass an AB32 equivalent, we would have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the fact that the rest of the solar system pushes us around gravitationally closer and further to the sun. Regularly, like clockwork. That is what caused those 100k year long Pleistocene ice ages, and the 41k yr long ones in the preceding epoch, the Pliocene. The interglacials between ice ages tend to be about 10-15k years long. The Wisconsin Ice age terminated about 11,500 years ago. In that time, all of human civilization and recorded history has occurred. Due to the Nine Times Rule, either 88.9% of us will NEVER get it, or we get it 11.1% of the time. I am so disappointed in the FACT that we are off chasing something that might have some effect while completely ignoring the facts associated with the real problems, dramatically expanding population and resources consumption tied to elimination of ~40k species annually and forest the size of California every year. Jeez folks, get on the right side of the decimal point, at least. No, solar folks have no place to hide on the subject of global warming. Ever notice the difference between summer and winter? Did you know that the earth's present tilt on its rotational axis relative to our orbital plane is 23.5 degrees? Did you know that the earth is roughly 8,000 miles in diameter? So, if the difference between what some call summer and some call winter is 47 degrees and a few thousand miles of commensurate diameter shift, what do you think might happen if instead of a few thousand miles of diameter shift distance from the sun we make that a few million miles instead? Like when the eccentricity of our orbit (2% of 93 million miles, or 1.7M miles) shifts as it does very periodically. That would be an ice age. Like the past 16 such climate change events that happened in the closest thing geology has to a clock every 100,000 years for the Pleistocene Epoch (past 1.6 million years). If you are worried about the 40-60cm (~2-feet) the IPCC says sea level will rise in the not too distant future, or the order of magnitude more Al Gore interprets the data to say, then lets use Gores 20 feet. Each of those 16 most recent climate change events averaged 400 feet in sea level change, 300 feet below present to 100 feet above. So, which of the 5 20-feet increments we are currently shy of those 16 peaks will Al Gore's be? How will you tell? As a geologist my research into this phenomena is extensive, and the most recent Arctic sedimentologist's interpretation is that the trigger event for the long slow 100k year slide into an ice age appears to be the complete melting away of the Arctic ice sheet, which, BTW is progged to be done by 2070. Now, the Vostok data show an interesting signature, covering 4 of those 16 Pleistocene events in its 1/4 of that time period (420k years). Those long, bumpy 100k year long slides into a deep freeze followed by an abrupt termination. Each time. Now what form of life would suddenly appear in numbers large enough to precipitate a 400 foot rise in sea level due to GHGs at the deepest depths of a 100k year long ice age? it has to be some form of life because we have no volcanoes that are that regular. And we have no ash associated with these terminations which are the most punctual (by a huge margin) thing known in the geologic record.

If you are worried about CO2 moving from 0.04 to 0.08% of the atmosphere, you are simply on the wrong side of the decimal point in terms of anthropogenic effects. Try 50% of the worlds forests, 50% of the world's grasslands gone in the last century, how about 13 of the 16 largest cities perched on estuaries, earth's incubators of life. Ever notice how the ground warms up with sunlight? Ya think if you knock off all that forest and grassland and whip up some of that surface as dust the same thing won't happen in the atmosphere?

What about the fact that if everyone on the planet got to live in American Plush the UN says we would need seven more planets? Its OK, if you want to focus on what is basically an innoccuous colorless odorless gas, I have no objection. The real problems are population, resources and energy. But the Nine Times Rule states with statistical certainty that the human being is nine times more susceptible to rumor than it is to fact. Simple proof? Which is the world's correct religion.

If you want to deal with this problem, start with some kind of population control. If the world were to take California's approach (I am a Californian) and pass an AB32 equivalent, we would have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on the fact that the rest of the solar system pushes us around gravitationally closer and further to the sun. Regularly, like clockwork. That is what caused those 100k year long Pleistocene ice ages, and the 41k yr long ones in the preceding epoch, the Pliocene.

The interglacials between ice ages tend to be about 10-15k years long. The Wisconsin Ice age terminated about 11,500 years ago. In that time, all of human civilization and recorded history has occurred. Due to the Nine Times Rule, either 88.9% of us will NEVER get it, or we get it 11.1% of the time.

I am so disappointed in the FACT that we are off chasing something that might have some effect while completely ignoring the facts associated with the real problems, dramatically expanding population and resources consumption tied to elimination of ~40k species annually and forest the size of California every year.

Jeez folks, get on the right side of the decimal point, at least.

]]> By: Audrey Yzaguirre http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/07/06/news_6-jul-07/comment-page-1/#comment-332 Audrey Yzaguirre Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:45:30 +0000 http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/07/06/news_6-jul-07/#comment-332 What is happening with the plastic bag situation? Clerks continue to be annoyed, even if you bring your own bags. It's as if they have so many plastic bags, they have to get rid of them. Will there soon be a charge for plastic bags? Why don't more stores sell cloth bags? How can we spread the word that you can get 3 cents back for every bag you re-use? What is happening with the plastic bag situation? Clerks continue to be annoyed, even if you bring your own bags. It's as if they have so many plastic bags, they have to get rid of them. Will there soon be a charge for plastic bags? Why don't more stores sell cloth bags? How can we spread the word that you can get 3 cents back for every bag you re-use?

]]> By: Lisa Moore http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/07/06/news_6-jul-07/comment-page-1/#comment-331 Lisa Moore Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:56:17 +0000 http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/07/06/news_6-jul-07/#comment-331 Thanks, Fred. Thanks, Fred.

]]> By: Fred http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/07/06/news_6-jul-07/comment-page-1/#comment-330 Fred Sun, 08 Jul 2007 08:22:21 +0000 http://blogs.edf.org/climate411/2007/07/06/news_6-jul-07/#comment-330 <a href="http://www.eredux.com/states/" rel="nofollow">Check this US Carbon Footprint Map out</a>, has United States Interactive Carbon Footprint Map, illustrating Greenest States. This site has all sorts of stats on individual State energy consumptions, demographics and State energy offices. http://www.eredux.com/states/ Check this US Carbon Footprint Map out, has United States Interactive Carbon Footprint Map, illustrating Greenest States. This site has all sorts of stats on individual State energy consumptions, demographics and State energy offices.

http://www.eredux.com/states/

]]>